I would rather look for Will/Sue Gleefic, thanks.

...

o.O

O.o

Would their song be "Physical"?

Also, word! on the rest.

And isn't it weird that writing is the ONLY artistic pursuit that is somehow supposed to be off-limits to hobbyists? Nobody says that non-professional artists should stop sketching, or non-professional pianists should never again touch a keyboard.

Yes, I've talked about that before too, and it's such a bizarre attitude. I really wonder when that started to be the norm, and what caused the idea of writing as a pastime to go the way of the dinosaurs. It's even more annoying than the idea that writing=big bucks, and selling a novel automatically makes you a bestseller millionaire.

People who object to fanfic essentially object to readers having their own feelings about the work.

Yes, exactly. The act of reading fiction is already completely subjective, and readers are already free to interpret the characters and the story however they want in their heads during the reading experience. Why does it matter if they put that interpretation down on paper?

This is a great post.

Thanks muchly!

If you find that Will/Sue fic, let me know.

Oh, and word to your whole post. :)

I only wish for that Will/Sue fic.

Great post!

Thanks muchly!

I love this post!

Thanks!

if the day ever comes when I see some of that -- some evidence that a handful of readers out there cared enough about the characters to take them into their minds and create their own stories -- and my only reaction is to sneer at someone's spelling? That's the day my love for storytelling has died.

YES.

This.

I love you.

Big hugs!

A hearty "Amen!" to every word of this.

Amen, or Surrender to Jack. Either will do.

"Fanfic was my only fiction writing experience before I got published, and while it did not teach me everything I needed to know about writing original fiction, it taught me a lot."

Same here! Apparently we are the unicorns and/or bisexual English-major girl gamers of this whole discussion.

As above. I don't understand how someone can possibly think that writing fiction, of any type, can possibly not help you learn how to write fiction.

Great post.

PJW

You are both wise and witty, which puts you way ahead of all the writers ranting against fanfic.

Also, whenever I see this:

Fanfic will warp my readers' perceptions of my characters.

I want to grab the writer in question by the lapels, get all in their face, and yell "LIFE will warp your readers' perceptions of your characters, dammit!"

Or rather, your readers' perceptions will warp their perceptions of your characters. They might see things as you do, or they may root for the villain to get together with the girl you mentioned once on page 244 as working at the local Steak & Shake. You just don't know.

Yes, yes, and yes. I also find the whole "it will warp their perceptions of my characters" thing to be the most absurd and offensive piece, as well. Neither writers nor readers exist in a vacuum, and we all bring the sum total of our literary and life experiences to bear upon every new piece of art we encounter. It's the way the freaking world works. It's why some people are going to hate the Weasley twins because they were bullied by class clowns; or are going to mock Dean Winchester because they're so freaking sick of stories built on ~manpain~; or cannot enjoy Will's rapping on Glee because it sends them into traumatic flashbacks involving the "Top That" scene in Teen Witch. (Okay, maybe that last one is just me.)

Also, sign me up for the Will/Sue.

I have seen cases where fanfic did seem to have had a warping effect, but by and large this was on people who were going to introduce a warping effect ANYWAY. Hating fanfic for this is a little like shooting the messenger.

I want to take this post out behind the bleachers and get it pregnant, I love it so much.

As for fear of fanon messing with people's reactions to their canon, I just roll my eyes. I know why they feel that way. I do. But if you sell tens of thousands of copies of a novel, nine people who get mixed up between the NC-17 story they read on LJ and your book shouldn't freak you out so much. Seriously.

Fanon can be a powerful thing, but generally inasmuch as it relates to (or even negates) canon, which means canon -- loved or despised -- remains in a powerful position, and fanfic continues to tie people to the source, sometimes long after they would otherwise be gone.

Oh, man, THOROUGHLY AGREED on all counts!

And strangely, I keep running into this everywhere I turn:

And isn't it weird that writing is the ONLY artistic pursuit that is somehow supposed to be off-limits to hobbyists? Nobody says that non-professional artists should stop sketching, or non-professional pianists should never again touch a keyboard.

So. Weird. It can be difficult when asked about my hobbies to say "I write"--because to so many people it seems to automatically mean I want to publish things, and that's where the conversation goes. I don't see that happen to people who say "I decoupage" or "I play the violin."

I don't know, man. I've been tempted to go after those big Pro Decoupage bucks myself a time or two.

They don't want to Revere High Culture. They want to be revered AS high culture, or low culture, but revered, anyway, and over those plebes who just, you know, pay for the books.

People who object to fanfic essentially object to readers having their own feelings about the work. These are people who don't want readers; they want buyers. They think that being an author is about offering down word from On High, not about sharing an experience. But stories are always communal experiences, once we tell them, and it's foolishness to pretend otherwise. Decrying fanfic is about denying opinions. Any author who does that is operating from a place of profound narcissism and/or profound insecurity.

Quoted for truth, and eloquence. "Buyers." That puts it perfectly.

Not that I object to buyers. I want to make that totally clear. But buyers who are also readers are the ideal.

Any chance you could tell me the titles of your original works? I love your writing and would really appreciate being able to read more of it.

I usually try not to cross the streams. Lately this has started to seem sort of coy, though. I might start PMing people soon; let me keep thinking about it.

Hear, hear! *applauds*

Thanks!

Bravo! Whenever I hear anyone bitching about how awful it is that fanfic exists, or how it tramples on the original intent of the story, I will point that person to this post.
There's good fanfic and bad fanfic, just as there are good published novels and bad ones. In fact I have had books in my library that I bought and then wondered how the hell they got published, they're so bad. It's not just fanfic.
Every time I read your "Phoenix Burning" fic, I realize that it is so much better than 99% of the published Buffy fic, I wonder why it isn't a published work. Hurray for good fanfic, I say.

I wrote "Phoenix Burning" five years before I sold my first book, and I did a lot of learning in those years and more since them, but the breakthrough I had in coming up with my first novel-length plot was the single biggest leap forward my writing ever took. I'd just thought coming up with a novel's amount of story was impossible, and suddenly a whole one practically dropped into my lap. and once I knew what it looked and felt like, I could come up with more.

Preach it, sister!

I preach it!

This post pretty much expresses everything I think and feel on the subject, and I just have to say thankyou, for putting all down so wonderfully. Rock on!

Thanks muchly!

2) "Seeing other people playing with my characters just generally freaks me out."

This one I totally get, actually. I also believe, however, that whatever you write is out of your hands as soon as you publish it, and they do become more than your own characters. Han Solo doesn't just belong to George Lucas, he belongs to all of us. The answer is nonetheless still not to read it.

5) "But they will write PORN/SLASH about my characters and that is just FOUL."

I want to address this, in the hopes that I express what I want to say in a somewhat clear fashion. On the one hand, sure, it's nonsense. You cannot dictate how people fantasize about your characters. It doesn't matter if it's canon or not, some people will imagine characters having simple interactions or adventures, and some will imagine them having that and having hot sex or complex romantic relations with whoever. Western culture is programmed to regard porn as icky and low and romance as sappy, so I'd imagine a lot of writers object to it on that level alone.
On the other hand, I think sometimes it does get tricky: when I still watched Heroes, the Petrelli brothers were one of the major pairings, and being a fan of one of them while at the same time looking at this characterization a lot of fans had for him frankly broke my brain. I don't know. I'd imagine JK Rowling wouldn't be too hot on the thought of Harry/Snape, for instance. Of course the solution is still not to read it, but I think it's conceivable to be disturbed by some of what's flying around without being automatically homophobic.

I didn't care for Petrellicest either, and frankly don't read any incest fic, but I don't go around proclaiming as a reason fic shouldn't exist. This essay is about people who do.

6) "Fanfic will warp my readers' perceptions of my characters."

Which kills me, because what do these people think book reviews or discussion groups do? Even *positive* reviews can change somebody's view of the characters! I'm having the most *amazing* fun right now over on DW at the community for discussing Rex Stout's Nero Wolfe novels. We're reading through all the books chronologically and discussing them, and it's already deepened and shifted my understanding of the characters *so much* and given me some fascinating new ways to think about them.

Seriously, I've never been able to get anyone to come up with a good reason not to write fanfic that doesn't also solidly apply to people writing in-depth non-fiction essays and reviews. (Especially the humorous and/or scathingly negative anti-fan type reviews for things like Anita Blake, Left Behind, the Smart Bitches' romance reviews, etc.)

After all, if we should respect the author's wishes about fanfiction because it gives her the heebie jeebies, how is that different from another author's request that we not call his book a total incoherent cliched mess because it hurts his feelings and it's totally like kicking his puppy, for reals?

-- "It might alter the way someone thinks about my work"
-- "It might deprive me of revenue"
-- "It makes me sad/angry/disturbed"
-- "You didn't get permission from anyone first"
-- "Why don't you write something original instead of picking over someone else's work"
-- "If you don't stop, I'll sue you"

When applied to bad reviews, these arguments are clearly embarrassingly ludicrous and a terrible reflection on whoever deploys them. But when applied to fiction, suddenly they're totally reasonable, and it's the *fanfic writers* who are suddenly immature and entitled for daring to go against an author's wishes, no matter how unreasonable or bigoted or insulting or controlling.


Edited at 2010-05-17 11:47 am (UTC)

I'm really glad you brought this up, b/c I had intended to talk about bad reviews in this. I mean, nobody can make anybody LIKE fanfiction of their work. If you do you do; if you don't you don't. Similarly, nobody can make anybody like bad reviews. (Though some writers do love fanfic, I don't think anybody flat-out adores a bad review.) However, there is a big difference between accepting the reviews are out there, squaring your shoulders and going on, and throwing a huge hissy fit on your blog and tweeting for all your followers to go flame that evil bad reviewer. To my mind, being crude, insulting and venomous about fanfic is essentially the same as flaming bad reviews. It's immature, it's pedantic, and it's a sign that -- no matter how many books you're published and sold -- you are, at heart, an amateur.

"Sparky" is good for all such uses.

*cheers*

Thanks!

Excellent post, excellent points.

Thanks!